True Fae

[Alysia]

Regarding True Fae,

I noticed your author redlink on that. Anyone can see who the first (and subsequent) contributors were for an article was by clicking the History tab, so adding an "Author" link is duplicative.  A link to the "author" is going to become misleading the first time someone else adds to the article. 

I'm not sure what purpose the statement "The information provided in this article consists of the author's original storyline ideas on what fae should be, and is based off of years of research on mythology and lore." serves.  It will also prove problematic if someone else chooses to contribute.

Do you have some objection to the removal of the author link and the above statement?

[Ehzoterik]

I do.  There was some previous argument over my using that information to define the species Fae as a whole on the RoR wiki.  The vision of True Fae is of my own original design.  I would protest to anyone coming in and editing things out to read differently.  Say: "True Fae actually do engage in frivolous orgies every night at court."  That would piss me off.

I do intend on starting another article to cover the general classification of the whole grouping of species "Fae."  Many other people have many different visions of what Fae are. Many of which I do not agree with.  But since my vision of them refers to themselves simply as "Fae" I had to come up with something else so as not to offend the masses.  The closest alternative was that they also refer to themselves as "True Fae" as the article explains.

The information was shared with the hope that other people might be encouraged to share that vision with me, play them as I do.  I do have a couple of friends who do play Fae the way I do, with my own shared vision.  And to help explain what certain characters (Faye Random, Kymeera, Revari, etc.) that are played in referred to in Rhydin are.

[Alysia]

I do.  There was some previous argument over my using that information to define the species Fae as a whole on the RoR wiki.  The vision of True Fae is of my own original design.  I would protest to anyone coming in and editing things out to read differently.  Say: "True Fae actually do engage in frivolous orgies every night at court."  That would piss me off.

That would piss anyone off, and it's why we have a requirement for people to discuss things here before changing an article. Someone who made an edit like that without some sort of discussion and consensus would be guilty (gasp!) of defacement and would likely receive an involuntary vacation.  And the edit would be reverted.

I honestly don't expect much (ANY) defacement here.  If it happens, we'll deal with it.

The Creative Commons license we use on this wiki permits adaptations.  If you're worried about the possibility of someone editing or building on your contribution, whether or not those adaptations are the result of consensus, don't put your content on this wiki.  Keep it on a personal web site.

[admin]

While editing an article in such a manner would need to first be proposed and discussed on the forums, users are always welcome to add their own content for such a thing, in this case hopefully with sources showing how they have seen "True Fae" roleplayed.  The spirit of this should be considered as with multiple dictionary definitions of a word.  We are not trying to establish "canon" of anything in RhyDin on this site; this wiki has been intended from its conception to be a place for many different voices on what makes up Rhydin.

Also, this site is not the place to be asserting ownership of a wiki article (The first four paragraphs of Wikipedia's article on Ownership of articles is useful in understanding why).   

I cannot go in and make the True Fae article a subcategory until the license issue is cleared up.   Please be sure that when you submit content to the wiki that you agree to license it under the Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license.  If you cannot agree to those terms, the content belongs on a personal website.

[Ehzoterik]

I cannot, in good conscience, approve of the disclaimer being removed from the article.  I am also fully aware of the CC license in use for the whole of this wiki.  I have read it.  I am familiar with it.  I do want the world to know that the content is my own original work.  I designed the species as they refer to themselves as.

Other editors and members are still free to add content to the article.  A second section can always be made under the overview and the disclaimer.  I am not saying people are not free to add to the article.  All I ask is that the content in the overview already not be altered in any way (with the exception of typo fixes), and that it be made abundantly clear that it is my originally creative intellectual property.

[Alysia]

Please remove your "disclaimer" from your article or remove the article itself.

The History tab makes it quite clear who the authors of an article were. Under the terms of the Creative Commons license we're using, I do not think you can pick and choose how your work may be adapted. 

This Wiki is not a place for you to establish what canon "True Fae" are or "should" be in Rhydin.  This is a place for multiple voices to be heard.  It is conceivable that someone else's vision of True Fae in Rhydin involves them engaging in frivolous orgies every night at Court, observed by erudite pixie and sprite scholars.  That vision is just as valid as yours, even if you don't agree with it.

You may not deem Wiki articles you have started or contributed to as "protected" from editing without your approval.  This Wiki is not a place for anyone's personal work to remain pristine without the possibility of being altered, changed, deleted, or completely rewritten by consensus.  If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here.

If you want to showcase your original work in an environment where it will never be altered by anyone but you and where you can be assured that the world knows it is your intellectual property alone, host it on your own personal website.  Rhydin Wiki is not your personal website.

If the "disclaimer" hasn't been removed or the article blanked by tomorrow, November 21, the article will be deleted.  This is an administrative decision.

[Natolii]

Not with White Wolf using True Fae...

The True Fae

They are the ones that stole the changelings from their home. Most of the time, they stay in Faerie, where they are the most powerful. They do not like being in the real world -- they are weaker there. They are alien in mindset, and are, to a human mind, crazy and almost impossible to understand. It is intentionally left vague as to whether or not "Arcadia" is the same place as the Supernal Realm of Arcadia found in Mage: The Awakening. Also called: The Others, The Keeper, The Gentry.

Keeping this in mind, I would tread lightly before you put up anything that would be construed as competition Ehz. It may not be copyrightable, but Trademark is a whole other area people tend to forget as well.

[Alysia]

IF the disclaimer is removed AND the “original author” agrees that the license we are using applies to all her work on this wiki, the article still needs some work. 

If White Wolf information was relied on (and it appears it was), it should be credited under a Recommended Reading subheading.   As two of the four characters listed as  “True Fae” seem to reside in the Deep Dreaming (which seems to be another White Wolf concept), and as the article’s link on Glamour is focused a White Wolf definition of glamour, claiming that the article “consists of the author's original storyline ideas on what fae should be”  and not giving credit to White Wolf seems a little iffy.

True Fae doesn’t seem to be a registered trademark.  Registered or not, I definitely wouldn’t want to tangle with White Wolf over it, and I would like to see a revision to clarify the differences between White Wolf’s True Fae and Rhydin’s True Fae. Whatever those are.

I would like to see the article worded in a more neutral point of view.  This Wiki is not intended to hold out any particular  concept (whether from another RPG or “original ideas”) as canon.  This is not the place to soapbox your ideas about what or how characters “should” be; instead, show what and how characters “are” actually being portrayed in Rhydin. If you’ve seen them played different ways in Rhydin, why not investigate those and write about the alternatives?

[admin]

I would propose the article be restructured along these lines.  It might better express NPOV and while it is restructured into headings/subheadings to invite expansion and edits, I do not believe it has lost any of the vital facts about True Fae in Rhydin in its restructuring.

True Fae, a subtype of [[Fae]], have also been referred to as '''Nature Spirits''' and may be mistaken for ghosts or poltergeists.
==Biology and Appearance==
True Fae are ethereal, formless beings.  While True Fae visting RhyDin do not have a specific physical form, they use [[glamour]], a type of magical energy, to take on a form capable of interacting with the material world around them.  Should a True Fae decide to expend glamour to interact in RhyDin, it will take on a form suitable for their personality as well as a form considered acceptably "real" within RhyDin.
Due to its lack of physical form, an encounter with a True Fae in Rhydin may leave one believing he/she has run into a ghost or a poltergeist, or experienced an unexplained  "chill up the spine."  <!-- "Show how it's done" -- this is a good place for brief examples from RP as source of ghost/poltergeist/use of glamour -->
*<!-- Bullets for other users to give different physical descriptions of True Fae if they play them or see something different -->
===Gender===
True Fae are found to be genderless beings without sexual organs.  As such, they tend to take androgynous forms <!-- "Show how it's done" -- good place to do a "See these characters"  and give examples of True Fae characters played in Rhydin that are androgynous. Backs up a blanket statement -->; however, in order to integrate itself into RhyDin, a True Fae may choose a gender which reflects its personality.<!-- as above give examples of gendered True Fae-->
Procreation amongst True Fae remains a mystery, as newborn True Fae manifest in Rhydin with all knowledge necessary to care for themselves.
==Culture and Behavior==
*True Fae are elusive in RhyDin and are perceived as antisocial, preferring to avoid other creatures as well as their own kind.
*While True Fae believe themselves to be the most superior of all the other Fae species, they have a restricted existence in that they are metaphysically bound to their own domains <!--- "Show how it's done" -- if these domains exist in Rhydin, describe, if not, explain how they are accessed via Rhydin, how they are relevant -->  and the use of their glamour is likewise restricted.
*True Fae often believe that other Fae, including pixies, sprites, and mischief makers, are foolish and irresponsible. <!-- "Show how it's done" -- good place to give quotes from True Fae characters expressing this view -->
*<!-- Bullets for other people to give different descriptions of True Fae behaviour if they play them or see something different -->
===Social Structure===
True Fae comprise a majority of the High Courts <!-- "Show how it's done" -- are these High Courts played in Rhydin?  Are they only True Fae, or general Fae, Sidhe, etc -- good place to give examples of High Courts in RhyDin, could be detailed in subsections-->.  The High Courts of the True Fae in Rhydin are comparable to political gatherings in medieval monarchies.
*<!-- Bullets to list characters who belong to these High Courts in RhyDin-->
==Sources==
*[[User:Ehzoterik]]
*(Links to examples of roleplay in Rhydin involving True Fae as noted above)
===Recommended Reading===
*(Link to White Wolf documentation)
*(Links to other inspiration which may need to be credited)

Please discuss the changes proposed above to this article; if a consensus is reached (and the license/authorship/ownership issue is resolved), the original article can be edited and this content can be inserted into a sub-category of Characters.  However, we cannot put this up if Ehzoterik did not intend to submit the work under the the site's license permitting adaptations, edits, derivatives, etc. so the article will have to be removed from the wiki if that is the case.

[Ehzoterik]

Please remove your "disclaimer" from your article or remove the article itself.

No.  As I said, I revised the disclaimer.  Sorry that you don't approve, but I feel it necessary, for the time being.

If the "disclaimer" hasn't been removed or the article blanked by tomorrow, November 21, the article will be deleted.  This is an administrative decision.

Glad to see you gave me time (that is sarcasm, yes).  Thank you so much.  Notably, I did not sign on again until today, the day after Thanksgiving, and did not see your big bold warning until just now.  So I hope you did your job, at least.

Not with White Wolf using True Fae...

Keeping this in mind, I would tread lightly before you put up anything that would be construed as competition Ehz. It may not be copyrightable, but Trademark is a whole other area people tend to forget as well.

It was Panther who suggested that articles could be given dictionary type tags.  I am not disputing the fact that there are other people (yes, even White Wolf) who may have other visions on what True Fae are, and who have used the same term.  As I said above, people are perfectly free to add their own secondary definitions (or primary, I don't really care which), so long as they do not edit and alter my own.

The admin's suggested revisions make it abundantly clear to me that my disclaimer is appropriate.  For one, no.  This statement is entirely untrue: "While True Fae visting RhyDin do not have a specific physical form, they use [[glamour]], a type of magical energy, to take on a form capable of interacting with the material world around them."  It has nothing to do with expending glamour at all.  The article on glamour is entirely unfinished.  I only started the framework basis of how glamour can be defined.  As I said elsewhere, I really wish I knew who wrote the old article on the RoR wiki, or that I had thought to save it as a basis.

My True Fae are only slightly inspired by White Wolf, not based off of the system.  They are also inspired by several other resources I have in my collection.  Particularly a book by Edain McCoy titled A Witches Guide to Faery Folk, as well as many others.  Glamour is only minimally related and should not be referenced quite as often, if at all, in describing the species.

I will consider these suggested revisions and work on them in my own due time.  Until then, the disclaimer stays.  Until I am absolutely satisfied.  Though I feel it ridiculous that I have to adhere to your regulations and templates.

[admin]

To avoid any further unpleasantness or confusion over content submitted under a difference license to this site, the True Fae article has been removed from the wiki.  We would be delighted to see an encyclopedic entry on True Fae recreated and submitted under the CC BY-NC-SA license. 

[Ehzoterik]

As soon as I can wrap my brain around "encyclopedic," you may very well see what you would like to see.  Until then...