Sources

[Alysia]

We have been giving a lot of consideration to the difference between what we call Personal Articles and Non Personal Articles, the Creative Commons license we’re using, and the basic Wiki theme of “consensus.”

We are extremely reluctant to turn this site into a compendium of closed, protected articles where only the original article creator has the right to edit his/her article.  Those who want that would probably be better served setting up a separate web page somewhere else for their content.

One of Wikipedia’s six key policies requires contributors to “Include only verifiable information. If the information in an article is controversial or likely to be challenged, a reliable source must be cited so that the reader can verify the information.”

So, a way to allow this wiki to remain and flourish as an open, mutual, collaborative endeavor is to require sources for all articles.

I’m not looking for debate on whether you think this is a good idea or not - it may be discussed at a later time, but not here.

However, before we explore this idea any further, I want your ideas about what we can use as verifiable sources to document ANYTHING about Rhydin, regardless of what category it falls in.

I’m aware of the limitations and difficulties in providing sources for Rhydin-related articles, but here’s what I have so far:

*Self (I am the creator of this character/location/organization)
*Web sites (particularly those put up by the creator(s) of a character/location/organization)
*Chat log excerpts (including date/room name)
*IM log excerpts (including date)
*Message board posts (including date/name headers)
*Emails (including date/name headers)
*Archived AOL documents
*Unverified (for content that just can't be verified for whatever reason)

What would you add to that list?


Edited to add Unverified.

[Ehzoterik]

If applicable: Books.

A lot of my content is inspired by certain offline resources.  I'd recommend using standard MLA format for citing sources in essays and other written articles.  But that's probably my old high school lessons still stuck in my brain.  From what I've seen of wikipedia, I think APA is commonly used too.  But I'm not sure on that.  I'd also have to go back and refamiliarize myself with how to properly cite sources such as books, magazines, and whatever else have you.

[admin]

If you find some books detailing what was roleplayed in Rhydin I would be fascinated to read them.

The "unverified" tag might be a good way to deal with people submitting articles which have no other sources, though ideally people should make some attempts to verify what they are submitting before posting it. 

[Ehzoterik]

I mean, for instance, as inspiration.  Many players are fanficcers.  They play characters inspired by novels (works of fiction), game systems (such as D&D and White Wolf), video games (lo! Sephiroth by the dozens), cartoons/anime, manga, and many other things.

Citing books as references may be necessary.  For instance: many of the characters I am preparing to post were built off the White Wolf gaming system Changeling: the Dreaming (see Gaspard).  I also know many people who play Mages, based off of Mage: the Ascension.  There are also many vampires who follow the White Wolf rules in the game Vampire: the Masquerade.

In some instances I will need to quote directly from my game books.  I may also need to cite works of fiction, since I do also play non-canon characters based off of a specific series of books.

See what I mean?

[admin]

Generally, citing sources in this wiki is intended to verify Rhydin specific content: when you submit material that may be challenged as inaccurate or vague (describing events or locations in Rhydin which may be contested), when you quote something (as said by a character in Rhydin from a forum post or chat log), or to back up facts in the article (as on roleplaying in Rhydin, or OOC history of Rhydin) rather than to show where creative inspiration came from.   However, so long as articles are specifically and clearly related to roleplaying in Rhydin and these books are backing that up, that should be fine.  Maybe you can share some examples?

[Ehzoterik]

Generally, citing sources in this wiki is intended to verify Rhydin specific content: when you submit material that may be challenged as inaccurate or vague (describing events or locations in Rhydin which may be contested), when you quote something (as said by a character in Rhydin from a forum post or chat log), or to back up facts in the article (as on roleplaying in Rhydin, or OOC history of Rhydin) rather than to show where creative inspiration came from.   However, so long as articles are specifically and clearly related to roleplaying in Rhydin and these books are backing that up, that should be fine.  Maybe you can share some examples?

I did.

[admin]

Your pardon, I was hoping to see some specific examples in the wiki.  I am interested in how you want to cite these.

Back to the topic at hand:  Do you (generic you) have other suggestions for sources that can be used to verify Rhydin-related roleplay content?

[Natolii]

Your pardon, I was hoping to see some specific examples in the wiki.  I am interested in how you want to cite these.

Back to the topic at hand:  Do you (generic you) have other suggestions for sources that can be used to verify Rhydin-related roleplay content?

That is a lot tougher then it sounds. Me, myself might have some older RDI Files and logs from my days as a CL. Some other players might have the same.

[Ehzoterik]

Your pardon, I was hoping to see some specific examples in the wiki.  I am interested in how you want to cite these.

See: http://www.rhydinwiki.com/index.php?title=Glamour

I wish I knew who it was that wrote the glamour article on the old RoR wiki.  I should have saved a copy of that to work off of.  I also don't know if that belongs in any category anywhere.  Maybe the Library?

[Alysia]

If you can relate it to Rhydin, that particular article might belong in the Library. But the emphasis needs to be on glamour in Rhydin, not what the WW system says about glamour and not a general statement about what glamour is.

I would like to remind everyone that this is a Rhydin wiki, not a general fantasy RP wiki.  This wiki is, and has always been, organized differently from the realmofrhydin wiki.  Please keep in mind that there may have been information that "fit" on that site that just won't "fit" over here.

Back to sources.  There may be a misunderstanding about what sources are needed for here, so I'm going to resort to a snip from the Admin earlier in this topic:

citing sources in this wiki is intended to verify Rhydin specific content. . . or to back up facts in the article rather than to show where creative inspiration came from.   

[Ehzoterik]

If you can relate it to Rhydin, that particular article might belong in the Library.

I can relate it to Rhydin.  As soon as I get the other relative articles written.  I have played Changelings in Rhydin.  Gaspard, who is as yet not fleshed out using this wiki's template, is one of them.  There are three others I had planned on listing as well.  I have also seen at least one other person playing a Changeling in Rhydin.  Just as I have seen hundreds of WW based Mages and Werewolves and Vampires.  Again: in Rhydin.

[admin]

The "relating to Rhydin" focus on any article should be specifically "how does it fit into Rhydin" (particularly as opposed to elsewhere) and "how is this important to Rhydin" rather than merely describing something someone (or "hundreds" of people) brought from another RPG to roleplay in Rhydin.   If you are writing "Per RPG system, X", you should focus your article instead on saying "But in Rhydin, Y and Z." 

The Glamour article which was linked needs to describe an encyclopedic example of what Glamour in Rhydin is instead of just saying "This is what Glamour is per White Wolf".  The author of the Glamour article certainly is not using the White Wolf reference to verify that Glamour was roleplayed a certain way in Rhydin (which is what the purpose of Sources in this wiki)!  As the article presently stands, the reference to White Wolf would better be used under a Recommended Reading heading. 

While I can infer from the article that the White Wolf definition is a foundation for how the author may have roleplayed Glamour in Rhydin, the article is not describing how Glamour was roleplayed in Rhydin, and the source does not really back that up as Rhydin content.  A Rhydin forum RP post describing the effects of Glamour on someone, a log of Rhydin RP showing someone using Glamour, something like that would be the Source.

If you need more explanation of what sort of focus we are looking to build articles around please let us know. We will be putting some more documents up on 21 November, particularly about sources, but if you are still having trouble with this, we will be happy to explain it further.

[Ehzoterik]

You seem better equipped to handle technical writing than I am, so have at it.  I'm a fiction writer, not a textbook writer.  I was providing the start of an explanation.  Something to work off of, not just myself but for other people.  I've always liked that brief explanation from the guidebook, and I think it fits.  More can definitely be added to that article, though.

However, I'm saying that there may be cases in which citing books as sources may be necessary.  That is just one example.

[Lilithiel]

Question about Sources,

I used a non-Rhydin website as research for Para RP in the Dueling article in the Library, listed it as a Source...  should that be a Recommended Reading subheading (sub-subheading?) instead?

[Alysia]

should that be a Recommended Reading subheading (sub-subheading?) instead?

Yep. I think so.